Page Two

AOL: Sensei, could you say a little more about the group that stayed together. About our way of practicing emphasizing the technical aspects more, hard practice. Why do you think that is important?

YY: Because after all, people talk about the spiritual aspects of the martial arts, budo, but still, budo is a physical commitment, physical contact. You learn through your body by practicing the physical movement. That's why I say I don't like an approach that is too one-sided, only stressing the spiritual side. Also, I like to maintain the pureness of art as I learned it from O Sensei, which is what I believe I am doing.

AOL: And the other uchideshi that were in your group share that approach?

YY: I think so. Different angles, of course but that is what is good about Aikido. Everybody is different, as long as it doesn't go too far. There are different styles, people studied at different periods with O Sensei so they were exposed to different things. Basically there's a similarity among us ... Sugano Sensei, Chiba Sensei, Kanai Sensei, different approaches, different angles but that's natural.

AOL: But all of you guys like to practice hard? Very physical, very technical?

YY: Yes. I can't stand it when people don't really practice ... why come? I always tell myself that if I can't move anymore as I want to, physically, I'll just quit. Just because I get older, maybe I can't move as well ... I don't want to change my style. If I see myself, physically in deterioration, I will simply quit. I don't want to change, denying the importance of practicing hard, "Oh, that's not the way, you have to practice soft". I don't want to make people practice only according to my age or condition. I won't do it. I will simply quit. It happens ... people can't move like they used to, they start denying the fact. I don't want that to happen to me. People say, "Don't go to that dojo. You don't have to practice that hard. You should be soft". But really they say that because they cannot do it the way it should be done. Or you hear some guy saying, "O Sensei never did a koshinage." That's stupid. He only says that because he cannot do it ... he starts denying it.

Of course, as you get older, you need some kind of adjustment but still you can maintain the pureness, solid posture, neat, clean technique. You should always maintain that. You don't have to be sloppy. Look at Osawa Sensei. He wasn't sloppy even though he was old. He still had good balance. That's one reason I admire and respect him, because at his age, he was still that strong.

AOL: At the time when Tohei Sensei was splitting did you think that kind Ki approach would become more popular?

YY: I didn't think that way, but even so, that would have been fine. It makes clear the differences. That's why I'm glad he called it the Ki Society, that he doesn't use Aikido in the name of his style.

You know, after Tohei Sensei passes away I don't think anybody can do what he did. You can't learn something like what he was doing just by thinking it. You can't. Remember, at the time he split, he was very strong physically. He had good, powerful technique. People would see him demonstrating ... and he could convince them they were using only their Ki but actually he was very strong.

AOL: There are many federations of Aikido today ...

YY: That is good. Our federation is important to us for some good reasons. For togetherness, shared ideas ... in another way I'm glad to see other federations also. It's good. It's impossible to expect everybody to work together. They have different ideas. The members in our federation like me and Kanai Sensei and the other Shihan personally, and they like our Aikido. That's fine. If people like to join us, because they like our technique, fine. That's how we are. That's why we have less trouble than other organizations because you guys aren't involved in a political way. That's why we do it the way we do. The main thing is for you to maintain practicing, that's all you need. You don't need to be getting into trouble or conflict with other people. You just mainly come to practice, right? That's why people, especially in Europe, envy us. That way there's more time for practice instead of going to more meetings all the time.

AOL: Were you surprised when Aikido started growing so much?

YY: Yes and no. I don't think that even O Sensei thought that it would get so popular all over the world. On the other hand I think there were good reasons that the public accepted Aikido.

AOL: Why do you think it has become so popular?

YY: Well, many reasons ... the spiritual aspects, of course, but really simply because of Aikido movement. Everybody has a desire to make physical contact ... but Judo can be too rough and full of struggling and in Karate you don't make any physical contact unless you are sparing. With Aikido you get some kind of physical contact but with fluid movement. You enjoy practicing ... making the physical contact. It feels good. Sometimes you may get hurt, or sometimes, you hurt someone else ... but then you're happy. (laughter)

It's funny but in your mind you think you might like to beat up somebody. In Aikido you do have that physical contact. You throw them or pin them, you get satisfaction. Of course Judo is a different story. If you want to be in competition, it's tough. Not everybody can do it. You have to be in really good shape. It's tough if you're older or small. Aikido is more middle ground. You can do it as you like. Hard, soft whatever. I think that's why it is so popular, because people get satisfaction regardless of their physical condition or limitations ... and it's effective.

AOL: Can you talk a little bit about the importance of your relationship with Hombu dojo and the other uchideshi. You frequently brought Shihan from Japan and other countries to our seminars and camps. Please explain about the contacts with Hombu now and maintaining relationships with those teachers.

YY: Well as you know there's been some disagreements over certain issues, even kind of a Cold War at times. But, I don't know, maybe we're asking too much of them, you know? They have their own situations and considerations. That's understandable. They made some mistakes with us that they admit now also. They have their own excuses, their own circumstances. I understand it's difficult because I know. When you're the boss you have certain responsibilities. So, some things I understand, even though I'm dealing on a different scale, but I am in that position too. However, some things have to be corrected.

But no matter what has happened we have stayed connected. That's an interesting thing about Aikido society, that we have a strong background ... a strong connection with the founder's family. Only in Aikido. Judo, they lost it already. Who cares about the Kano family today? Who knows ... Aikido might become like that too. A generation after us, maybe they won't even know who Ueshiba is. I don't think every dojo is going to put up Moriteru's picture. I doubt it. But what can I do? I try to keep that kind of tradition and connection. A direct line. That's why at every summer camp we try to invite those who are working for headquarters.

Maybe part of the problem was that we all left. Me, Tamura, Kanai, Chiba, Sugano. The new generation never met O Sensei. So, for the younger generation, maybe it's important for us to keep contact with them, to teach them the history, what it was like with O Sensei at the dojo in those days. There was in a gap between the second and third generation. We were all gone. For that we feel kind of guilty. That's why we feel a responsibility to keep the contact.

AOL: It seems that the Aikido world has grown tremendously over the years. Today, all of you Shihan who left have large Aikido organizations outside of Japan. A lot of the experience of Aikido is now outside Japan as opposed to being in Japan. Do you think there are ways that the international Shihan could be helpful to Hombu dojo now and share your experience?

YY: It's a matter of trusting each other.

AOL: On your recent trip to Japan in May you taught a class in Hombu dojo.

YY: That was the first time. The first time one of us Shihan taught a regular class there since we all left Japan.

AOL: Do you hope that that type of thing will start to happen more often?

YY: When I was speaking before the class and after the class, I was saying I hope this is the first of many more opportunities, both for me and the other Shihan. I felt I opened a new bridge, and from now on when my Sempai come back or my Kohai come back, I hope they are given the same opportunity.

AOL: That way the knowledge could be shared.

YY: Yes.

AOL: Could you talk a little bit about the Shihankai that was recently formed?

YY: A few important facts ... of course, we are all different individuals, we have different way of thinking, different way of educating people, different styles of Aikido. But, if something happened among us, some conflict, I think the students are the ones who would suffer, because, let's say me and Chiba Sensei argue and decide not to work together. Our students are the one's who are going to suffer. It's important we stay together, not for our sakes but for everybody else, the students. It's important that we are working together in some way, and show that we have good relations, instead of fighting. Because, then you are the ones who are forced to make a choice. Like me and Kanai Sensei. If something happened between us, there would be complete separation. Then you're the ones who are forced to make a decision, a choice. That's bad.

For that reason the Shihankai is good. Not for political reasons, but for friendship and working and learning together. Each of us has a different way of educating our students, and it's very difficult to standardize that. Teachers are different, different ways of educating their students, different philosophies. Especially because of the size of our country, it's so big. We don't get as much contact between everybody as it is. So, it's good we work together, do seminars with each other.

AOL: So the Shihankai was formed as a way to continue friendships and create positive communication?

YY: I think so, yes. Ideally, it would be nice if all of the Shihan got together often for big seminars. That's nice. But again, because of the size of our country, that is difficult. In a country like France, it's possible. They all get together with Tamura, all of the Shidoin, but here it's not that easy. Money wise, economically, not everybody can do it that easily.

AOL: Sometimes the Shihan do get together as a group.

YY: Yes, that's nice. Like my thirty-year anniversary at Colgate University. Sometimes we can get enough people together to support that kind of event. It was very good.

AOL: It's a great benefit for all your students to be able to train under all of you at one time.

YY: It's a good thing to show to the students that all of the Shihan are working together well.

AOL: One thing that's always been interesting is that even though we've always had one primary teacher, like Kanai Sensei or you, we've also been able to spent a lot of time learning from other Shihan as well like Sugano Sensei, Chiba Sensei and Tamura Sensei. We've had the benefit of many teachers and that's been a great learning experience for us.

YY: It's good. You're very lucky.

AOL: But it has also been important for us to know that it was one teacher where we really learned our fundamentals.

YY: That's important so you don't get confused.

AOL: Is that the way you look at it as well?

YY: Yes. You still have an opportunity to steal something good from everybody, but your fundamentals should be from your own daily teacher.

AOL: Is that one of the reasons that for many years, from the beginning really, you brought over teachers from Hombu?

YY: That's the reason. It's an opportunity for me to keep good relations with other Shihan. If I become too opinionated, like I don't need anybody else or I want to be a big boss or something, what's going to happen? Your opportunities are going to be limited. It's because I have good relations with Tamura Sensei that he comes to New York or summer camp. In turn, I have an opportunity to attend their summer camp. It's good to be diverse, more opportunities can happen on an international, global level. However, if I establish my own family only, like I don't need any other Shihan because I'm jealous of them or what ever, it's no good. Your ability to learn is limited. It's a small world, and I think we should stick together.

AOL: That attitude seems to have been beneficial. The quality of your students is high....if we don't say so ourselves!

YY: That's because you have been exposed to good teachers. Naturally, I have to make a judgement about who I think is good. I'm not going to invite somebody who is no good just because they are a friend or whatever. I wouldn't do it. It's a waste of money and time. Even if I don't especially like a Shihan, I'll invite them if I think it's beneficial for you guys.

AOL: How about looking into the future, Sensei?

YY: Well, you tell me, you guys are the future.... (laughter)

AOL: How would you like us to do things in the future or what direction would you like us to take.

YY: I just don't want you to get lost. I want you guys to know where to go. No matter, any argument, any thing, it's still important to have a connection to the headquarters no matter who is there because that is what the public sees. That's our Headquarters no matter what. That's where we get our certificates from. If we ever made a decision to split from headquarters it would be because we worry about your future. But, I don't know if that would be a good decision. For instance, if we were to go independent and issue our own Dan grades. While we are here it's OK, but after us, what's going to happen. Later the public says, "What does this certificate mean? It's just a piece of paper." But if it comes from headquarters it has a value no matter what. It has a tradition.

That's why in Europe there are two tests for Dan grades. One national and one from headquarters. They have got the national one but still, the students want to take the Aikikai test and get an Aikikai certificate. That's what the reality is. People see a value in a connection to headquarters. I don't know what will go on after we retire. We'll see what happens. I know that you guys will probably continue to work together with your friends in our organizations here in the US and abroad.

AOL: Is there any advice you would give us in dealing with that situation?

YY: The solution? I have to stay young. I have to live longer. (laughter)

AOL: It seems that a solid connection already exists between the students of the international Shihan. People often travel to the seminars and camps of other groups. Many Shidoin are teaching on an international basis. Relationships are already forming between the younger instructors. It seems like our future is already set up and that we will keep these connections going. The way you all have worked together is being passed down to our generation.

YY: I think, there are some close friends in the group, that will maintain a link. I hope that we have built something that will last. But you never know. I don't even know exactly what's going to happen in my own dojo when I'm gone. Who will take over? I'll try not to leave any conflict, I don't know how, but it's human nature to have differences. Maybe some people will start fighting over the dojo.

Hawaii is a good example. They fought over who can use the dojo. That dojo belonged to the membership, and later they fought over it, who could use it. New York Aikikai is also owned by the membership. So there could be problems. It would be a different story if I had a son to take over. Like the Ueshiba family. But my son is not involved in Aikido. So it's difficult to predict the future as far as our federation is concerned. It could happen that there will be a split, but still there will be a good amount of you who stay together and maintain order. I don't know how many, I don't know who they are exactly but I think it would include you David, and Peter, Claude [Berthiaume], and Harvey [Konigsberg].

AOL: I guess that's something we should start to think about somewhat.

YY: Yes. From now on I want to spend more time for that also. How to keep you guys and the organization together. That's why I want to establish communications directly between you guys and headquarters, for the future. No matter what, you must have communications with headquarters. Where else are you going to go when you go to Japan? Everybody's dream is to go to Japan and practice at headquarters. You cannot deny them that.

AOL: Do you think that Hombu dojo is trying to keep a good connection with us too.

YY: Yes, I think that they are seeing the importance of that also and are trying. They worry about the relations with me and the other Shihan. We talk about the issues. If they make a mistake we should approach them directly. We have to be able to say no if we disagree. I wrote in an article, being a leader, you must have people who can say no to you. It's no good to be surrounded by people who always say yes. We need people to say, "Hey Sensei, that's wrong, I don't think it's a good idea." It's important to have those people and you have to listen to them. You're not always right. I make mistakes. Right Peter, sometimes you come and say something if you disagree with me. I don't mind, if I think it's a good idea, I go with you. If I don't agree I tell you to go to Hell! (laughter) AOL: Sensei, we want to thank you for doing this interview with us. We covered a lot of different subjects. It was kind of freewheeling.

YY: I think an important element to this is to let the public know who and what we are. To talk candidly. To tell them that there are some groups who are on the right path. Right now, many people are lost. There is so much junk out there. They don't know where to find the real Aikido. This way at least they have some information to make a choice. It's a good idea. I will always make myself available for interviews like this.