Interview with Clyde Takeguchi

Part 2

So it sounds like you train your senior students in a way like an uchi-deshi program but with no real live-in students though.

No, no real live-in students.

Are you traveling a lot lately? Are you doing a lot of seminars?

I keep saying that I don't, since I definitely have a job that keeps me busy. I try to go to 2 or 3 a year. I had a chance to go to 2 or 3 this fall but…. I try to make accommodations but sometimes the job gets in the way of Aikido. It's difficult.

Are you teaching about 3-4 seminars a year?

At our dojo?

No, that you are traveling to and teaching at.

Well, this is my second year here. (At WPB Aikikai) I go to Oregon with Mike Friedl, one of my students from Wisconsin. I visit there every year or so. I go to Charleston every 2-3 years. Alan Jackson is the chief instructor there he tries to bring me in with people from the area. Then I have a few other students elsewhere. I guess I go to Toronto every other year or so and a few other places that invite me.

When did you first meet Yamada Sensei?

Well, in Hawaii they have a black belt seminar once or twice a year. Yamada Sensei was on his way to New York and he stopped over at one of these seminars. Usually at those seminars Koichi Tohei was there and there were some university students.

I remember Yamada was throwing those university students very well. Yamada Sensei was very fast, very impressive. He flipped those guys around, and I was very impressed. I didn't see Yamada Sensei again until years later after I had been in the Midwest and went to the East Coast.

When did Yamada Sensei first come to Hawaii? What year was that?

It must have been '64, '65, or '66. I'm not sure. The early 60s, I think it was.

Then you met up with him in the states later?

Yes, when I came to the East Coast. I think I might have met him in the Midwest but I really didn't get to know him until I cam to the East Coast.

That would be when you formally established Capitol Aikikai?

Right.

But didn't you initially have an affiliation with the Ki Society, or at least some training with them?

No. But unless you consider that Tohei Sensei started the Ki Society and I trained with him when he was with Hombu dojo. When they split I was already in Wisconsin so I have never been with Ki Society. I trained under Koichi Tohei in Hawaii and it is inevitable that my style resembles Koichi Tohei Sensei's style somewhat but I stayed with Hombu dojo and USAF.

I definitely think it was a good decision at the time. Any time there is a split they don't show what is similar, rather they show what is different. I thought that Koichi Tohei would emphasize the philosophical part and Hombu dojo would emphasize the technical part, and although I was interested in the philosophical part I think the technical part is important. It is also important to be part of headquarters and O-Sensei's style, so I took that path. I was accused at times of sitting on the fence, of doing this and that, but I definitely think staying with Hombu Dojo was a good decision.

What then, is your philosophy? In what direction do you take you dojo?

What direction?

How do you like your dojo to be? How would you like your dojo to be known? What do you tell you senior students? What direction do you guide them in with their Aikido with their training and especially their philosophy?

Definitely what O-Sensei taught, that Aikido is love. Aikido is a martial art, but it is a benevolent art in a sense, and so the idea is to balance the philosophy with the practice. Aikido being a martial art, you have to train by taking the falls as well as doing the throwing. You have to do both sides because complete Aikido is that you have to know both sides and to understand one you have to do the other. One reason why even now I train I think that doing both gives you a complete understanding of the complete technique and of the art. As you get older you may not be able to do it as easily as before but there are other aspects of it that you realize after some time.

Speaking of your teaching, your instruction, what is it you want your younger, beginning students to walk away with. They obviously don't have the length of training and don't understand what Aikido can offer to the same depth as your senior students, so what do you emphasize with your beginning students.

I don't teach beginners any more in my dojo, but I try to emphasize ukemi, that's the basic foundation for Aikido. Aikido is also movement, so you have to know omote and ura, irimi and tenkan your directions, I guess front and back, just the basic exercises, those are the basic foundation. Put those movements together and you have a technique. The fascinating thing about Aikido is there is an unlimited number of techniques depending on the people. Slight differences make techniques look different. But knowing a lot of techniques is not the object. I try to emphasize understanding the basics and the advanced techniques will come.

When do you first begin teaching weapons?

Anyone is welcome to take weapons from the beginning. Aikido is a very weapons-oriented martial art and it is important to move to higher levels of understanding Aikido. I don't think it's essential but I definitely think the training is worth it. I use the weapons now mainly as tools, tools for understanding Aikido because I think that as a weapon you won't use these anymore. People use guns, among other things. Of all the weapons we use the tanto is more like a modern weapon of choice. People use knives and smaller-type weapons as a whole. I think that weapons training is good, it gives you a different, better understanding of techniques.

So you would say you incorporate weapons into regular training instead of a weapons class.

It's good to have weapons class separately, but as technique itself is weapons oriented technique it should be one in the same.

What kind of instructions do you give to your senior students.

We've instituted an instructors class for quite a few years and we are emphasizing going back to basics and trying to discuss problems people have had in teaching. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to some things, so it's just sort of a shoulder to cry on so people understand that teaching Aikido is not like teaching a course at school, it's a lot different.

There is a lot more physical interaction so how do you deal with different types of people, different types of students: younger students, older students, do you teach only technique? How much do you teach philosophy? We have themes, on ukemi, on flow, on moving forward. Different sorts of things as an emphasis for training.

Also instructors class is a place at least where they all can take the ukemi so in a sense it is a harder training because the competency level is quite high. You have a chance to practice with other instructors and senior students as well so even if you do the basic techniques it is a different level of basic techniques.

Do you teach henka waza and kaeshi waza?

Yes, and I use that as part of some of the exercises. I think that Aikido is weapons oriented and also a multiple person martial art in that you deal with a person one on one, even when there are multiple persons. You can't deal with all of them, you have to deal with one at a time. The person that is closest to you, the one that attacks you first is the one you have to deal with so the interaction is always a one on one interaction.

I think part of the training is on the mat and part of Aikido is understanding to do that off the mat, and part of the interaction, the randori or the one on one, if you can use that for dealing with people off the mat, or in the workplace or with the family, I think that's where Aikido has the best benefit.

But also the other thing is that dealing with friends in the dojo, there is a certain distance of familiarity and if you deal with people in the workplace, it might be a little closer in the family it is much much closer so the Aikido, the interaction is quite a bit different. With your family, spouse, kid, brother, compared to friends or working friends or someone from Aikido there is a different level of closeness and familiarity, the interaction changes as well.

You can see that in Aikido when there is someone that you practice with a lot, you can do a lot of things you would not normally do with other students. If you had a beginner, you would be much less willing to take chances so how you deal with people on the mat, you should be able to do the same thing off the mat. Unfortunately, that doesn't happen too well, but it's still part of the training. I think that is why Aikido is very fascinating, on the mat, you can get to a certain level but off the mat you can show how you apply it in your daily life at work, especially at home, that's the hardest thing to deal with. You can yell at your kid and after that you think "Oh, Jesus, I lost my cool" but by then it's too late and how can you deal with that. That's difficult.

Sensei, with all your travels, all your experiences, where do you think Aikido is today in the big picture, in the United States and worldwide?

CT: I think that American Aikido is one of the best worldwide. I think Americans, especially in Hawaii, have been training in Aikido since the 50s and I think that there is a lot of Aikido knowledge in the U.S. American Aikido has been very fortunate to have a lot of shihans come to train here. We have Yamada Sensei, Kanai Sensei, Chiba Sensei, Sugano Sensei; Akira Tohei was here. There is a lot of Aikido all over in the U.S. alone, and the training level is quite a bit more than when I was growing up, when it was rough. It's definitely interesting.

The ukemi has changed. It's much more stylistic now. Whether that's good or bad, I don't know. Time will tell. Worldwide, Aikido is very popular in Europe, in Asia, in Russia. Aikido has a universal note, a common note that allows everyone around the world to practice it, as long as you keep it in a commonality I think that it will grow much, much more. The world is changing. It will be interesting to see what happens.

O-Sensei thought that Aikido was training to see how to love one another and that he could have world peace with the use of the philosophy of Aikido. I don't know if it will be in my lifetime, but that's a good thought. I don't know how long it will take for world peace, much less training on a universal scale. There have been factions of Aikido since Aikido has grown, whether they will continue to break apart or coalesce.... it's a dynamic thing. A lot of other martial arts have done the same thing. Aikido is not that different, but hopefully it will be.

Sensei, I would like to thank you for the opportunity to share your thoughts and memories with us.